the myth of a Christian nation

14 thoughts on “the myth of a Christian nation”

  1. Thanks for the links 🙂

    Obviously one political party is going to be more ‘friendly’ than another where matters of Faith are concerned …and I can see the temptation to support one over another in efforts to further the values one has.

    I hadn’t heard of Dr. Boyd, but I’m looking forward to checking out more of his work.

  2. thank you so much for posting this josh. I watched the vid you put on twitter earlier, now I really want to check out his sermons.

    I’m not gonna lie, I was very “american pride” and whatever at one point. I will say that listening to TFOG pretty much opened my eyes to what was really going on. It never really occured to me because I was raised in a conservative patriotic Christian family. I still have trouble explaining my beliefs to them. But I appreciate you guys’ willingness to step out of that gobblagook mess and stand up for Christ.

  3. I’m totally going to check this out right now.

    I’ve had this conversation with my parents a few times. I was raised in West Michigan, which is a ridiculously conservative part of America. I was raised in a church that taught to ignore people who did things that were evil (like get tattoos, smoke, etc . . . you know. Real evil stuff.) The pastor started to teach things like “You have to do exactly what your pastor and your parents say (until you’re separated by marriage) or you don’t have the blessing of God,” and he thought we should treat the government the same way as well.

    So when I started to figure things out for myself, needless to say, I began to feel sort of like a heretic. It’s nice to know there are others out there with the same beliefs.

  4. Thank you so much for posting this Josh.

    I have been trying to explain this point to many of my fellow believers, but have either come across as a lunatic or a jerk (both of which are my fault and I have been trying very hard to fix this). I feel like these videos and sermons simply present what God Himself has said to us in the clearest way possible. Thank you for being a warrior for God.

    ps – can you believe how sick the FIF DVD is?

  5. HEy Josh, thanks for this. Yes, i agree poltics is not the ultimate duty of a Christian, and yes voting can not be Christian since an abstract or inanimate object is not able to be saved. But as Christians we cant step away from the culture we need to change it, and if that is through politics then we can. If it is in politics then we need to speak the Truth in lov en and show the Gospel and Christs love to those people in politics.
    Again, i agree with the previous posts that you are stepping out there and giving resources for people to look into. Thanks.

  6. This is a radical way of thinking & Biblical. Thank you so much for posting! I’ve thought about this often but I’ve never heard anyone actually being able to separate conservative politics & religion. Yes we as Christains should try to affect the world we live in as much as possible. I personally belive Christians should be MUCH more active in politics. Not to try to make people “behave” per say, but to try to create a safe, free place for all of us to live, Christian or not. But we have let the manifestations of our faith be shaped by the politics we should be trying to change.

  7. Hey man.
    First off thanx for all you do/have done/will do and to God be the glory! You’re in my prayers.
    I also find many distressing things in the American church today, namely the prosperity ‘gospel’, the emergent church movement, the watering down of theology and Bible-centeredness, and ultimately the way we move away from God’s glory as the focus of all. I’ve been humbled to see the way you oppose truthless patriotism that focuses on America rather than Christ, and it has been great to see someone who values Jesus and His word above a country made up of sinners in a sinful world.
    One warning, though; Greg Boyd does have some troublesome theology, namely his embracing open theism, which serves to undermine God’s sovereignty and isn’t really Biblical. But I definitely admire his stance on patriotism and such, so that’s for you to work out. May God show grace to you and further your ministry fo His glory!

    1. thanks for the kind and open-minded words, similarly i also find the things you mentioned (prosperity gospel, emergent church, elementary theology, etc.) to be troublesome.

      i think the concept of open theism is worth our study, and perhaps at its core not as problematic and contrary to scripture as one might assume, but of course we do best to study, weigh against the Word and seek the Holy Spirit’s council on such issues. like you said, for us to work out.

      of course letting said issues create divisions in the church is a mistake and i appreciate your friendly and respectful approach to potential objections. very refreshing!

  8. Thanx for your reply bro! Not to waste your time with online conversation, but, well, I enjoy them. Sorry if this wastes space…

    I do think that open theism is more logical than Arminianism, or at least the logical end of an Arminian view. Nonetheless, my studies have led me to embrace the Reformed view as the one I see to most sufficiently agree with Scripture. However, if you or another can persuade me with Scripture that the Word supports Open theism, then I must be ready and willing to toss out my previous convictions. I would hope that we all go to Scripture not with preconcieved notions of what it says, but rather with a blank page for God to write whatever He wills. As I continue my studies, I’d in turn encourage you to read Chosen by God by RC Sproul and The Five Dilemmas of Calvinism by Craig Brown. May we indeed strive for Scriptural unity, though not at the expense of truth.
    Oh and you’re a phenomenal song writer, Matthias…, And the Smokers…, and The Fear of God have some of the best lyrics I’ve seen since Be Thou My Vision! Rawk On!

    1. Thanks for the very kind words! I truly appreciate your humble and open-minded attitude, it’s very refreshing and something i hope i can shine in my own life.

      i’ve got to strongly disagree with the reformed theology, i can’t reconcile it with scripture. ideas like limited atonement and irresistible grace are in no way compatible with my understanding of Jesus and His word.

      but, as you said, my primary focus is the Lord and His kingdom, not winning theological debates or reconciling man-made doctrines, so i’m striving to remain open to the truth as He reveals it a well.

      i’d encourage checking out some of these essays when you have the time.

      http://www.gregboyd.org/category/qa/predestination-free-will/scriptures-dealing-with-determinism/

  9. Josh/Showbread –
    Thanks so much for posting this. I have been thinking these thoughts for a few years now, and like you, I felt alone in it. I sometimes wondered if I was becoming “liberal” but I honestly was becoming more bothered by this type of stuff. I have always been bothered by the idea that “this nation was founded by Christians” or “Christian principles”. I wrote a paper while in a conservative fundamental Baptist college on why prayer shouldn’t be allowed in public schools and took some heat from fellow students on it. I had always been raised up that same way but as I started to study history and literature I was suprised to find out how many of the founding fathers were agnostic Diests. Anyways, that has been my beef for many years. It wasn’t until I moved to New England though that I started to notice how my new pastor and many others in the church would often confuse patriotism with Christianity, and this really started to bother me. I keep my mouth shut and roll my eyes to my wife, but I can’t tell you how encouraging it is to find out about this book and these sermons. To know that its not just me and one of my favorite bands that feels this way, is very refreshing. I don’t feel so alone anymore. As God told Elijah – there are still 7,000 who haven’t bowed their knees before Baal.

  10. I agree tat you can’t vote in revival. Revival comes from the bottom up. But I don’t think that you should be absent from politics or ignore what’s going on in the white house. I guess I don’t really understand what Greg or Josh is against.

    1. Confusing patriotism with Christianity would be the way I would put it. Holding up “Americanism” as an idol and anything immoral as “Unamerican”

      On another note, I just found out one of my close friends from high school actually goes to Gregs church, and I’ve never heard of him before. small world.

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